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Inside The Bradfield Centre Episode 38 - Gearset

James chats to Kevin, co-founder and CEO of Gearset, The Bradfield's fastest growing company. A spin out from Redgate Software, they are solving DevOps for Salesforce implementations. Learn about Kevin's background, how has he adapted to becoming a CEO, Salesforce, continuous delivery & integration, how Gearset have grown and roles they are hiring for.

Episode Transcript

James Parton:              

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Welcome to Inside The Bradfield Center. I'm James Parton, Managing Director of the Bradfield Center. And on today's episode, I'm joined by Kevin Boyle who's the CEO and co-founder of our fastest growing member, Gearset.

So Kevin, thanks for taking the time for coming on today.

Kevin Boyle:                 

Thanks very much for having me.

James Parton:              

Yeah. Very much appreciated. Why don't we start at the top? What was the origin story of Gearset and what kind of problem does Gearset solve?

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah. Gearset's got a funny origin story for a startup. We were working at a company here in Cambridge called Redgate Software, which builds DevOps products and solutions for the Microsoft ecosystem. Redgate was, and is, an awesome company to work for, but like lots of smart Cambridge companies, had a bunch of its own tech that it had no business developing, but developed anyway. And one of those things was its own CRM. And few years later, the runway runs out on that and they ended up bringing in Salesforce. And I guess that was my first exposure to Salesforce and I thought of it as a CRM application, and then as I got exposed to it more and more, I discovered it was this whole platform that you could build on top of.

And what was really interesting about Redgate adopting Salesforce was that it used an external SI, system integrator, as a lot of companies do, but also put a bunch of its own software engineers on that implementation as well and they loved Salesforce, loved the power of the platform, the productivity. They didn't love the development experience. They didn't love the lack of source control, the lack of continuous integration. Looked around for something, assuming there would be some solution out for this that allowed teams of people to work together building solutions on top of it, and found nothing.

So came to me and another few people that were in Redgate's R&D department at the time, said, "Here's an area you got to go look at." So we went off and looked at it and just really loved what we saw from a product potential and business potential and all of the rest. So we started Gearset to go off and look at solving that problem for teams.

James Parton:              

Nice. So you obviously spotted a gap in the market and ended up spinning out of Redgate.

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah. We spun out of Redgate, took seven people at the time, came and started Gearset to try and help the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people globally that build solutions on top of Salesforce to try and give them a development experience that's every bit as good as JavaScript or C# or Java or any other platform you choose to consider.

James Parton:              

Perfect. I mean, we've mentioned Salesforce there a couple of times, for the uninitiated, give us a flavor for the scale of Salesforce's ecosystem. Because I mean, I've been in San Francisco when Dreamforce has been on, obviously pre lockdown, and it's enormous, right? Just the size of the company, the number of customers, the number of vendors that are part of that ecosystem. Do you want to give us a flavor of what that looks like? Because you're obviously a key part of that community.

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah. As I say, prior to Gearset, I hadn't that much exposure to Salesforce, I obviously knew them as the creators of this SaaS business model in lots of ways, this mega stock market ticker. I sort of knew them from that point of view, but I didn't really know what they did. I didn't really know a lot of what Salesforce was about. I certainly didn't understand the scale of it. I then started to understand the scale of the product, what types of companies are building on it, what types of solutions those companies are building. And yeah, the real eye-opening moment was when we went to Dreamforce in 2014, which is their sales and tech conference in San Francisco.

I guess I've done lots of other conferences at this stage of my career. I'd done Pass, Build, all these conferences that Microsoft put on 10, 15,000 people. Dreamforce was just something else. It was 150,000 people, they closed down streets in San Francisco right in the heart, just off Market in and around the Moscone Center. They put down fake carpet on this, so you're walking along the street, cross walks and traffic lights, and you're walking through this, it's been described as half tech conference and half rock festival. U2 have played there, Hillary Clinton's spoken there. It's a weird mix of stuff.

James Parton:              

It's crazy. Yeah. No, it's amazing. So, I mean, your background, you're a software engineer by education, right? So I mean, how have you found performing the CEO, co-founder role? And how has that stretched you out of your comfort zone? And how have you approached equipping yourself with the kind of skills necessary to lead a business?

Kevin Boyle:                 

It's the kind of thing that you only do, I think, if you don't think about it. So I'm a software engineer by background and the classic geek profile growing up, loved playing with computers, loved building computers, playing video games, just nerd. And grew up at a time when my first computer was an Amstrad CPC, if you've ever encountered those. And what was awesome about computers of that generation was, to do anything, you had to do a little bit of programming. Just that you were dumped out at a basic prompt to do anything. So grew up exposed to technology, really wanted to be good at writing code. That was what I wanted to do and really focused on through university and through my first couple of jobs. I wanted to be good at that.

Then I wanted to be good at that as part of a team. And then I discovered that the thing that I really loved doing, I still do love writing code, I started to get more of a buzz out of building products to help people do their job, which is what I had a fantastic career at Redgate doing. And I guess there I had a few different jobs where I started off as a software engineer, then went to sort of a product manager, my job title never changed from software engineer, but I ended up doing a whole bunch of different things that I think equipped me quite well to go and do Gearset.

And the biggest shift has been probably the shift towards building a sales organization. That was probably the biggest thing I've had to do at Gearset that I'd never done on anything, I'd never done any selling before at all. But the way that Gearset does sales is a lot like I did product management before. You speak to customers, you understand their problems, you try and work out, how would you solve it if you were them? Can Gearset software fit into that mix? So it's a lot like product management in a way. Only at the end of it you ask for cash or you ask for credit card details. So-

James Parton:              

Yeah, a collaborative process.

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah, but that's been probably one of the biggest shifts to just building that.

James Parton:              

I was going to ask you about the go to market. You talk about building a sales organization. I mean, do you do any kind of developer relations style outreach and build community through that approach? Or is it more of a sales-led approach?

Kevin Boyle:                 

No, we're a product-led company. So we make sure that if you're a Salesforce developer, Salesforce admin, and you're out there searching for a solution to the problem of how to get your team to work effectively together, how to adopt version control, how to really effectively be a software team on top of Salesforce, then you'll probably go read stuff on Stack Exchange or you'll read stuff on the influencer blogs and things. And we make sure that lots of that thought leadership content is stuff either that we have written or that we make sure our voice and opinion is in there. So then folks, whilst they're getting themselves educated, come across Gearset, come to our website to try out the product, and we make all that slippery as we can be. You don't need to give us credit card details, you don't need to speak to a sales rep if you don't want to, just use the product and be successful. And then we're pretty sure out the other side of that, you'll become a subscriber and stay with us.

James Parton:              

Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, before we get much deeper into the conversation, maybe we should just back track a little then and talk about DevOps as a discipline. I think it's fairly well understood these days, but it might be worth just recapping your take on DevOps and what it means to you guys.

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah. In particular, I guess some of the nuance of what it means in the Salesforce ecosystem, because it can mean a little bit of a different thing versus a DevOps team building Kubernetes solutions on top of AWS or something. I guess the original DevOps methodology evolved a little bit out of agile software and the idea that we're starting to deliver more and more frequently and the strain that that was putting on release schedules and the ability to run that software either on public or private cloud or whatever way you want to run it and deliver it.

And DevOps was all about bridging the gap between the folks writing the software and the folks delivering the software in terms of the systems, keeping them up and running, and making sure those teams were highly aligned. And so I guess the consequences from bad decisions in one came back to the original team and make them have that end to end ownership, rather than throwing stuff over the wall.

That's all true in the Salesforce world as well, except that Salesforce is very managed platforms. So you're not really thinking of the primitives of containers or virtual machines or networking VPCs or... That's not the kind of stuff you're thinking about. It's a much higher level abstraction. You still have a lot of the same challenges though around how to get a team to collaborate effectively, how to make sure that your release cycles are, those release cadences are nice and short, how to get your software well written and well delivered into the hands of your end users. So all of those core tenants of DevOps still hold true, even if some of the technology choices are different.

James Parton:              

Yeah. I was listening to one of your talks on YouTube, just preparing for this, and I like the way you described that reduction in risk by going for that continuous deployment approach, getting away from those huge releases where you've got so much stuff to test and bug fix.

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah. Completely. And the complexity of your delivery pipeline is really what decides your release cadence. So with Salesforce native tools where they're not that well developed and not that far down this industry shift towards frequent release schedules, we often come across teams that do a month of development work before they get it out to their end users. And then, you're carrying, if you go back to all the lean principles, you're carrying a massive amount of inventory there, there's a lot of stuff sitting on the shelf that you can view in two ways.

You can view it as, well, this is great stuff that hasn't been delivered to your end users. That's a shame, it's a shame they have to keep waiting for this. And also it's a load of risk because we're working from the assumption that it's great stuff, we don't know that until someone started using it. So from both that risk reduction and also time to value, as soon as you write some code, let's get it out to our users. And I think that's true if you're building mobile app or web app or Salesforce or whatever, you still want to get this stuff that you're building out to your users and get feedback as quickly as possible.

James Parton:              

It seems like you guys are practicing what you preach as well. You are releasing new versions of Gearset like 10 times a week, I think something like that, three times a day, I think you were saying.

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah. Three or four times each day.

James Parton:              

Yeah. So I mean, how are you achieving that? How do you organize your engineering teams to achieve that kind of thing?

Kevin Boyle:                 

I guess it's in the DNA of the company. So you can look at it from a bunch of different dimensions. There's the technical excellence that's required to have a delivery pipeline that well oiled. Then there's also the why we do it. So we do it so that we can get product feedback as quickly as we can. So there's that product excellence. There's sales excellence. It's not just an engineering problem, it's as I said, we have a sales organization that's highly consultative. It's not about shifting units of software, it's about working with our customers to understand what they need. And those guys are world experts in Salesforce DevOps and how to arrange Salesforce teams. So they're able to give feedback back into our product organization about what to build and what our prioritization would look like.

From the purely technical point of view, yeah, we just have baked that in from day one. If you're a seven-person team in Cambridge trying to build a global multi-tenant, highly available SaaS application, you have to get some of those fundamentals and some of those foundations right. And as we scale the company, we've hired amazing engineers, amazing technical leaders that have embraced that ethos and have just made it even better. So as we've gone from one data center to four or five data centers, four engineers to 40 engineers, they have done the heavy lifting of keeping that culture of continuous improvement very much alive. So we just automate, do the things that everyone aspires to do, automate everything, do infrastructure is code, but I think more than any of the technical solutions to that problem, it's a company wide embracing and certainly an engineering wide embracing that we want to be delivering three to four times a day. That's important to us. So that culture just permeates everything that we do.

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James Parton:              

I'll come back and talk to you a little bit more about scaling the business, because obviously you've had really impressive growth. Before we do that, let's just go back and you talked about reaching influencers and building that kind of thought leadership and profile for the company. So, you guys have got behind the Salesforce DevOps survey and you do your own Salesforce DevOps summit. Talk to us a little about some of those initiatives and what kind of reaction you've seen to them, has it really helped turn into that thought leadership and generate sales for you guys?

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah. I think Gearset and the folks that started it had a different viewpoint to a lot of the maybe received wisdom that was in the Salesforce ecosystem. So from the very start, we have been bringing an engineering mindset and engineering excellence viewpoint to the ecosystem and making sure that folks understand why adopting these processes are ultimately good for you. So from the very start, we've been doing that. White papers on how teams can adopt version control and continuous integration and all these different things. So we've been out there from the get go.

Some of the really interesting stuff we've done recently is hosting our own virtual summits that were virtual last year and this year, and hopefully, hopefully there'll be physical events next year, where we bring folks together to talk about this, discuss it, run workshops on it. And really, I guess, as we've scaled and earned more market share and earned more voice in that market, yeah, the things we do now have a slightly bigger impact because we're a little bit bigger, but I think it's, again, part of the DNA of the company is, we think there should be engineering excellence on top of Salesforce, just the same as any other platform, and I think we have a viewpoint on how that should be done.

James Parton:              

Yeah. It reminds me that AWS well architected stuff and the stuff they do around driving that education around the space as well.

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah, for sure, because I think it's new. There's lots of folks in the Salesforce ecosystem who have come from Salesforce. They've come from building solutions on top of Salesforce. They maybe haven't worked on other platforms or haven't been exposed to other ways of working and yeah, you don't know what you don't know. So go out and do a bunch of education and show folks, "Hey, if you were building apps with Java, you'd do it this way." And okay, well, you don't have to worry about this stuff and that's great because Salesforce will take care of that for us, but there's still a bunch of great learning here that we can apply to any platform.

James Parton:              

Yeah. And then I think another great thing that you guys are doing, which is just classic scale up playbook stuff is building the kinds of partnerships that really help build your credibility. So I see you are working with the likes of GitHub as your DevOps, [inaudible]. Talk to us a little bit about the importance of partnering and how that's helped extend the product offering and improve the product experience that you guys provide.

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah. Partnering is such a broad topic. There's a bunch of different lenses you can look at it through. The way we started was maybe with a little bit of that product mindset again, where we saw other folks in the ecosystem reinventing things that were already fairly well solved problems. So we would see people try to create bespoke version control for Salesforce. Well to us, that was backwards because GitHub, GitLab, all these companies do a super job there, right? The best that you will ever do is as good as them. And that just felt, well, why reinvent this stuff?

So from the start, from a product point of view, we partnered with the best companies and the best tools for solving each of those individual disciplines. And then we would be the glue that would tie that all together and provide the CI and CD on top of Salesforce. Then as we scaled the company, yeah, obviously if you can develop effective partnering relationships, you get to benefit from working with those fantastic brands and it lends a bunch of credibility to your offering. And then there's a bunch of unique opportunities within the Salesforce ecosystem for, it's a very partner-led ecosystem. So the system integrators, if you wanted to adopt Salesforce, you call up Salesforce and say, "Hey, I'd like to buy some Salesforce." They'll say, "Fantastic. Let me introduce you to my system integrator partner in your region." So those folks then are great to work with because if you're bringing Salesforce in, if you're going to start building solutions on top of it, you're going to need some DevOps solution and making sure those SIs recommend us is really good for our go to market.

James Parton:              

Yeah. Yeah. That makes total sense. So we started to touch on it, but talk us a little bit around the challenges, well how you've approached scaling the business and what are the challenges you've faced as you've grown so rapidly?

Kevin Boyle:                 

A bunch of challenges. That's a great question. There's the classic imposter syndrome and not really knowing what you're doing and having to just react and make stuff up. I never had to get a building before, find a place to put 120 people, and that's something you then have to start thinking about. I never had to deal with commercial property contracts. Now someone has to, right? So loads of that falls to me and a few others in the business.

The biggest challenge though is the same that everyone has, which is finding great people. You can say that scaling is your ultimate goal and weaken your culture or weaken your hiring, lower your hiring bar to enable that scaling. Or you can stay true to the thing that you're trying to create, making sure that the 131st colleague is just as good as the first colleague that you had. And if you choose that path of having excellence in all areas of the business, having an amazingly high bar for making sure you're finding people that are genuinely excellent at their role, then you're going to struggle to find people, and that's definitely been our biggest obstacle, has been finding people.

James Parton:              

Yeah. And I guess as you are growing, you are hiring people all over the place right now. You're not geographically limited to just Cambridge.

Kevin Boyle:                 

No, no. I guess pre COVID, we had started to hire remote as well. We had full-time remote developers. I actually remember quite a fractious board meeting in February of 2020 where I said I wanted to double down on remote, I wanted to have lots of great remote engineering teams, and it was an interesting board discussion as to, "No, we had created something amazing with folks co-located in an office in Cambridge. Why were we going to risk jeopardizing all of that by having to run the whole thing remotely?" And then yeah, a month later, the decision was taken away from us. Yeah. So that was great from that point of view that we proved that we could work remotely.

I was already confident we could, because as I say, we had hired full-time, remote people, we were planning to hire more. Gearset had run like a hybrid organization before that was a thing that I knew what label to put on it. We didn't care where people were. We had a lovely office here in the Bradfield and folks would come into it. It was just a nice place to work, a nice place to hang out with people that were like-minded, but there was no reason you had to be here. Happy to have you work from home.

And we had originally set up the company systems to support that. The original, original, original vision for the whole thing was, I would be based out of New York and Matt, Gearset's co-founder and the rest of the team would be based here in Cambridge. So we set it up from day one to be async, because if I was going to be five hours offset from the rest of the team, we had to make that work from the get go. So I was pretty confident in the foundations of what we'd chosen and the way we'd chosen to work together, that it would scale to that. But yeah, COVID was the ultimate test of that nice theory.

James Parton:              

Yeah. Well I'll ask you a question in a second about how you've dealt with lockdown and all those kinds of things, but just keeping on that theme of remote teams, distributed teams, as the CEO, you're obviously spending a lot of time, I guess, thinking about company culture. What's your attitude to making sure that those remote teams still feel part of the company and even if they're just self-selecting working from home versus in another country, how do you maintain that sense of togetherness?

Kevin Boyle:                 

I would say on the culture front, I wouldn't purport to have the answer. It's still been the single biggest challenge over the last year and a half. So I guess maybe a year or two from now, we'll have decided if we have got that right or not. I think it's just lots and lots of little things. Again, it's choosing what to focus on. So if the culture of the company is important to you, you could make a decision that it's not, you could make a decision that... We just opened an office in Chicago and we could make a decision that actually, we're happy for the Chicago office to be totally separate, to be totally distinct, to have a different set of values. And there are lots of businesses that do operate that way.

So we've chosen not to do that. We want a single global feel to the company. If you're working with a colleague in Chicago, it should feel very similar to working with a colleague in Histon. So the ways that we have done that are the company has been, again from the start, built on this culture of openness, transparency, and feedback. So there's nothing really a Gearset secret. We talk about our customers, our revenue, our company strategy, it's all open if you're an employee. And I think when you start from those foundations, you create an environment where folks are happy to talk about what's on their mind, to show vulnerability, to show weakness. And then that breeds a culture of caring about the people around you. And I think that's true if you are sitting next to each other at desks, or if you're 3,000 miles away, I think you'll still care about the colleague and making sure they're being successful.

We have done things like we did all the stuff that everyone did during lockdown. We did the virtual drinks on a Friday and lots of virtual events, things like escape rooms where you're the someone somewhere in Sheffield who's wearing a GoPro when you're telling them to do Burpees through Zoom, that sort of stuff, which was all really, really good fun. I would say that we just did a summer barbecue where we got everybody together for the first time, or not everybody, but as many people as we could get together for the first time. And that was pretty unbeatable.

So I do think, if you look at even fully remote companies, they still like to get together a few times a year. There's a lot to be said for those events and human relationships.

James Parton:              

Yeah. I mean back in the Twilio days, going over to San Francisco to be in HQ and just being around people just makes such a huge difference.

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah. We just had, the guy that we've hired to run our Chicago office is this awesome sales leader called Simon Bishop. And I've worked with him now for six months or so, whatever length of time we've had that office open, and work really well together, Zoom makes it all effective. We can effectively run the business, but he's been over in Cambridge for the last three weeks, getting to go out for sushi with him and seeing the man demolish some sashimi or tearing into Negronis like they're going out of fashion, those are things that we were never going to discuss over Zoom, whereas I think now knowing that about him, it's just add a little bit of color to the relationship and it makes everything else easier.

James Parton:              

And back to your point about the challenges of hiring, I'm guessing the culture, the openness, the flexibility just gives you an advantage when you're trying to, it's a cutthroat market out there for software engineers, so it gives you a bit of an advantage.

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah. I think you're going to struggle to recruit if you don't have something unique about your company. If all you're going to go on is, let's say compensation is the obvious one. I mean, a Cambridge startup is going to struggle compared to Google or Facebook or whatever. And the folks that work at Gearset could go have those jobs tomorrow if they wanted. There's no reason they couldn't go and pass those interviews. The thing that keeps them at Gearset is, again, because always comes back to the team and the colleagues you're working with and choosing, I guess we all spend 40 plus hours a week at work. So you're trying to decide, what do you want to spend that time doing?

You want to be working with amazing people. You want to be trying to do something together and doing something more than just cranking out the days, hours to get to some results that don't really matter. So we focus on a lot on the team side during recruitment. We want to make sure that folks that are coming in think about things the same way that we do and care about things the same way that we do and have the same values. So that's important to us.

James Parton:              

Yeah. I mean it sounds like you didn't have a specific, you weren't driven, let's say, by lockdown and the necessity to figure out how to work remotely. You're already going down that path. But talk to us about how you have adapted and how you're approaching the way the team operates moving forward. It sounds like it's pretty self elective in terms of who comes in and when kind of thing. What's your approach?

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah. COVID accelerated a lot of the things. So originally, we would never have opened an office in Chicago having never met folks. The original plan was, we were going to grow a few of our sales leaders here in the UK for a couple more years, get them a little bit more experience, a little bit more people management, then we'd get them visas and they'd go out and open the office. Or if we did hire someone, we'd have them come over here first for six months and work with us here and then go back and open it. But yeah, in March and April last year, when it was clear the scale of what was going to be unleashed on society, we had to decide either now we pause hiring for certainly 12 plus months, or we just embrace this thing. We just embrace it and try and take the opportunity from it.

And the opportunity for us was, "Okay, well now we can open this office in Chicago because we have to hire there. We have to make it work. So let's do that." Same with remote developers. It was no longer a case of trying to convince ourselves to do one or two hires and maybe build a team and maybe see how it worked. It was like, "Everyone's remote. Okay. Let's get as many remote developers now as we possibly can and that'll stop us ever back sliding." If we ever come back to an office, there'll be such a critical mass of remote folk that never want to be at an office that will be forced into making all of those things work. I think we're still going through that transition, so we've got space here at the Bradfield for about 100 people give or take, and I'd say on any given day, there's maybe 30, 35 back. So yeah, different folks work different ways and that's always suited us and-

James Parton:              

Yeah. And it's early, right? Who knows how things are going to turn out? But it's good to have that flexibility to go accordingly, whichever way we go.

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah. That's worked well for us and it's, again, always worked well for our teams. Folks, if they want to work from home, they can work from home. If they want to come here, they can come here. We've never had a strong view one way or the other.

James Parton:              

So I mean, what's next? Things are going great it seems, certainly in terms of the way you've scaled. So, how long you been with us? Two years. Two and a bit years?

Kevin Boyle:                 

Yeah. Two and a bit years I think-

James Parton:              

Yeah. I mean, the way you've grown is incredible. You started, I think with 24 people, is that right, here?

Kevin Boyle:                 

Might have been even less. I can't remember when we first moved in. It was between 15 and 20 I think when we first moved in.

James Parton:              

Yeah. Yeah. So amazing growth. So yeah, I mean what does the next 12 months hold?

Kevin Boyle:                 

Double again, just double every year. That's the plan, which goes back to finding great people as the big challenge. The plan is to, as I say, double revenue, double head count. That's across everything. So as I said, we're product led so we're fundamentally a product company. So to develop a great product, you need amazing product managers, engineers, designers. So we'll need all of those folks. There's no point building product if you can't get people to really understand the positioning and marketing behind it, so you need an amazing marketing team that's integrated with your product team. It's not just, again, throwing stuff over the fence.

And then once your marketing team do an amazing job of educating the market and your product does an amazing job of bringing folks in, well, then you want an amazing sales organization to help shepherd them through, so to be that consultative expert. So again, we're hiring account executives, SDRs, BDRs, everything. And then with the customer growth that we are seeing, you want a great customer success organization to really not to view customers as the relationship ending when they've purchased, but the relationship only beginning.

James Parton:              

Yeah, nurturing them and celebrating them.

Kevin Boyle:                 

And then obviously when you get to 130 people or going on 200 people, you start to have some internal needs as well. So an amazing people team, an amazing recruitment team, all the folks that make Gearset work. So just across the entire business, we're hiring for absolutely everything.

James Parton:              

Yeah. Such an exciting time. Well, congratulations.

Kevin Boyle:                 

Thank you. It's been, as I say, if you stop to think about it, you might get scared. So it's just heads down and keep growing.

James Parton:              

Yeah. Well, thanks for spending the time. I really appreciate you coming on.

Kevin Boyle:                 

I appreciate it. Thanks very much.

James Parton:              

Thanks again to Kevin for coming on the show, a super busy guy, so very much appreciated. Today's show was produced by Carl Homer of Cambridge TV and you can listen to previous episodes by searching for Inside the Bradfield Centre on Apple Podcast, Spotify, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Amazon Music, or by visiting bradfieldcenter.com. If you have a spare two seconds, give us a five star review as it'll really help other people discover the show.

 

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